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Freemasonry Watch




Forums.officer.com: Freemasons Thread (Started 04-15-2006)




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Forums.officer.com
http://forums.officer.com/t45946/

Thread: Freemasons

04-14-2006, 03:53 PM #1

Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296

Freemasons

How much influence do the Freemasons have on your department and city/county/state government ?

All the chiefs in the history of my doepartent have been Freemasons. When I came on 25 years ago, the chief was actually insulted if you did not try to join a Masonic lodge. Almost all the supervisors, detectives, narcotics and traffic bureau people were Freemasons, and the "profane" were expected to trudge along as patrolmen for their entire careers. It seemed like about half the traffic stops you made, someone would be tappong a compass ring on the door as you approached

Things have changed since then. Although the present chief if a mason, there are many people in high and desirable positions who are not, and I don't think anybody careas about that any more. I dont know if it is that the department has changed in that regard, or in society in general

Are there any other organzations, etc, who have alot of influence in your department?

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04-14-2006, 04:03 PM
#2

fahrenheit
Forum Member
2002
Location:Chicago area
Posts:405

Tap that compass ring on the door all you want. Unless there's a badge and ID in that hand, too, we're still having a nice little chat.

More on topic, I'm unaware of anyone in my department who has any connection to the Masons. It sure as hell doesn't play any role in promotions (we have enough politics as it is without throwing that stuff in).

"The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep." -Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

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04-14-2006, 04:14 PM
#3
Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296

Quote Originally Posted by fahrenheit

Tap that compass ring on the door all you want. Unless there's a badge and ID in that hand, too, we're still having a nice little chat.

More on topic, I'm unaware of anyone in my department who has any connection to the Masons. It sure as hell doesn't play any role in promotions (we have enough politics as it is without throwing that stuff in).
I had a guy who as I was cuffing him said "I am a Mason and a Shriner, and you can;t do this to me"

Well, I am not a mson and i did do it to him. I was expecting a phone call on it, but I never got it. He pleaded guilty

The masons are not big in Catholic cities like Chicago, NYC, etc, so I am not surprised they have no influence by you

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04-14-2006, 05:19 PM
#4
1042 Trooper
This Can't Be!
Join Date:Feb 2006
Location:A red house in a red county in a red state in a red country
Posts:10,407

Quote Originally Posted by Hogboy

I had a guy who as I was cuffing him said "I am a Mason and a Shriner, and you can;t do this to me"

Well, I am not a mson and i did do it to him. I was expecting a phone call on it, but I never got it. He pleaded guilty

The masons are not big in Catholic cities like Chicago, NYC, etc, so I am not surprised they have no influence by you
Elks do the same thing. ****es me off just as much. Suddenly you're supposed to be best friends? Press hard, you're making five copies.

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04-14-2006, 05:39 PM
#5
Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296

Quote Originally Posted by 1042 Trooper

Elks do the same thing. ****es me off just as much. Suddenly you're supposed to be best friends? Press hard, you're making five copies.
The Elks and the Moose Lodge are pretty much just social clubs around here. I think there might be something more sinister going on with the Mason thing.

There is alot of potential for Freemasonry to be used as a vehicle for corruption because of their veil of secrecy and their "moral code". A freemason is obligated to hepl a brother mason out of his legal troubles so long as it does not jeopardize himself. The only exception to this is "treason" (however one may define that)

Thereis much evidence that the assassinations of JFK, MLK and Megar Evers were, although not "Masonic conspiracies" in and of themselves, were planned and carried out enirely by Freemasons.

The KKK was founded by two Freemasons, Nathan Bedford Forrest and Albert Pike. Albert Pike is considered the most respected Masonic writer who wrote "Morals and Dogma", considered the greatest Masonic book.

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04-14-2006, 06:15 PM
#6
mainedawg
Forum Member
Join Date:Jan 2006
Location:Northeast
Posts:942

Elks and Masons in my part of the country.

www.military.com
Moderator Hot Topics
www.militarypoliceassn.net

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04-14-2006, 06:28 PM
#7
Operator13
Just Another Voice
Join Date:Aug 2005
Location:In your Commo, running your 27's & 28's
Posts:1,104
message deletedby Operator13

"The statements and opinions contained in this communication do not necessarily reflect the official position of the Commission regarding these issues."
____________________________________ http://www.danielfaulkner.com

Justice for Officer Daniel Faulkner
____________________________________
09/11/2001 Never Forget

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04-14-2006, 06:36 PM
#8
RedRaider911
Forum Member
Join Date:Sep 2005
Location:Tejas
Posts:629

Let me start by stating that I am a Mason. Now that that is out of the way...if I was to stop someone and they began to claim they were a mason to try to get out of the ticket, I would find out their lodge number and talk to them to get info on their lodge. THEN...they would get treated just like everyone else. If I would normally write the ticket then guess what, you are getting it to. Maybe if I was in another part of the country I would approach it differently, but around here we have had many instances of people claiming to be masons for personal gain. Some of these people have turned out to not be masons, just jerks who were trying to take advantage of the lodges natural inclinations towards charity. That doesn't sit well with me. I have no problem helping a brother when he is in financial straights, or having personal problems, but when it comes to the law they should follow it just like everyone else. The simple fact that they are a Mason means; to me, that they should hold themselves to a higher standard anyways. I became a mason because I appriciated the lodges morals and values, the mosonic lodge and scottish rite provided hospital care for my brother when we were young. If it wasn't for the work of the lodges and scottish rite my parents would have been in great debt due to my brothers surgerys (he has cerebral paulsy). I have never appriciated someone who tries to join the Masonic lodge thinking it will help their status, and every new member committee I have been on has not recommended someone if they act like that is the reason they are joining.

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04-14-2006, 11:35 PM
#9
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296
Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider911

Let me start by stating that I am a Mason. Now that that is out of the way...if I was to stop someone and they began to claim they were a mason to try to get out of the ticket, I would find out their lodge number and talk to them to get info on their lodge. THEN...they would get treated just like everyone else. If I would normally write the ticket then guess what, you are getting it to. Maybe if I was in another part of the country I would approach it differently, but around here we have had many instances of people claiming to be masons for personal gain. Some of these people have turned out to not be masons, just jerks who were trying to take advantage of the lodges natural inclinations towards charity. That doesn't sit well with me. I have no problem helping a brother when he is in financial straights, or having personal problems, but when it comes to the law they should follow it just like everyone else. The simple fact that they are a Mason means; to me, that they should hold themselves to a higher standard anyways. I became a mason because I appriciated the lodges morals and values, the mosonic lodge and scottish rite provided hospital care for my brother when we were young. If it wasn't for the work of the lodges and scottish rite my parents would have been in great debt due to my brothers surgerys (he has cerebral paulsy). I have never appriciated someone who tries to join the Masonic lodge thinking it will help their status, and every new member committee I have been on has not recommended someone if they act like that is the reason they are joining.
Sometimes playing the Masonic card in front of a judge can backfire. I heard a story about an accused child molester who held his feet at a 90 degree angle and threw out some code words due guards and stuff at a masonic judge and the judge was even harder on him.

But it would not surpise me if a Masonic judge cut some slack to a traffic violator

Read a book called "The Deadly Deception" by Jim Shaw

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04-15-2006, 03:10 AM
#10
Fraud Dog
Forum Member
Join Date:Sep 2005
Location:California
Posts:60

Wow do I feel culture shock. Here in suburban southern California it seems like nobody under 70 is a Mason. I see Shriners in 4th of July parades, and I hear that they do great work, but they are all old guys.

I think that out here fraternal organizations have gone by the wayside. My mother was in a Catholic women's organization, and one grandfather was a Knight of Columbus in Missouri, while another grandfather and an uncle were Masons in rural Arizona.

But nobody that I know aged 60 or under belongs to any of those groups anymore out here on the coast. Maybe nowadays it is more of a small town activity. No offense, just don't see it.

I have actually never met anyone out here on the coast, and I have lived here all my life and am in my mid 50's, who said that he was a Mason. Since I don't know any, and never see anything about them, I have no prejudices one way or another.

I have heard of cliques in law enforcement based on ethnicity and religion, but never Masons, Elks, Moose etc.

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04-15-2006, 03:21 AM
#11
ptcop531
Forum Member
Join Date:Mar 2004
Location:Indiana
Posts:745

I, too am a FreeMason. This subject has been beat to death on this forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In Memory of Staff Sgt. Matt Kimmell
United States Army
5th Special Forces Group
Former Deputy Sheriff, Vanderburgh County
Killed in Iraq October 11, 2005
Sometimes I wonder, who you'd be today!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


www.tryfreemasonry.org

Real men wear aprons..

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04-15-2006, 09:31 AM
#12
VA Dutch
Former Deputy Sheriff
Join Date:Feb 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:1,782

This subject comes up from time to time......but it remains a mystery to most folks. I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or the other, but agree with the statement about them being a lot of "old guys" these days.

My late father was a member of a masonic temple, as were his brother and both of my grandfathers. I have a Catholic cousin who currently belongs to the Knights of Columbus - and he claims that they forbid membership in a masonic lodge.

My uncle, who is still living, said that masonic lodges never "recruit" people and only show interest in those men who approach them first. The way society is today, you would think that these fraternal organizations will eventually die off as their members pass on. Who knows? No mention of the knights templar was made to my brother, cousins or myself. Perhaps the family elders did not think we were worthy of membership.

Anyway, the sheriff for whom I worked was a mason.......as were several other deputies. Nobody made much mention of it, however.

The comments above reflect my personal opinion as a private citizen, ordinary motorist and all-around good guy.

The aforementioned advice should not be construed to represent any type of professional opinion, legal counsel or other type of instruction with regard to traffic laws, judicial proceedings or official agency policy. ------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance on fire is hotter than knowledge on ice."


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04-15-2006, 10:30 AM
#13
weliveinflorida
LET'S GO RED SOX!
Join Date:Apr 2006
Location:West Palm Beach, FL
Posts:23

Questions?

While I have heard of the Elks, Moose, Freemasons, K of C and Shriners (my mom worked at a Shriner's hospital in Massachusetts for years), I don't know ANYTHING about them...other than I only see and they DO (don't kill me for saying this!) seem to be "older". Do they even have websites or anything? How would someone find out about them? (Not that I'm looking to join, but I'm kind of an info-junkie)...I'm originally from Massachusetts and they all seem to be big up there. I think my father in law is an Elk, but I never asked him anything about it...Does anyone know what any of them are all about or have any suggestions for websites or articles?

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04-15-2006, 10:43 AM
#14
VA Dutch

Former Deputy Sheriff
Join Date:Feb 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:1,782

Some quick searching turned up the web sites shown below. I neither condone nor oppose any view represented by any of them, but merely have listed them so that forum viewers can read the contents for themselves and develop their own opinions regarding this topic.

{How is that for a generic, politically correct disclaimer?}

http://www.freemason.org (Web Site for a California Lodge)

http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous.htm (Famous Freemasons)

http://www.freedomdomain.com/freemason.html (Read for Yourself!)

http://freemasonrywatch.org/ (Anti-Masonic Site)

http://skepdic.com/freemasons.html (Skeptic Website)

http://www.bilderberg.org/masons.htm (Another anti-masonic site)

ENJOY!!

The comments above reflect my personal opinion as a private citizen, ordinary motorist and all-around good guy.

The aforementioned advice should not be construed to represent any type of professional opinion, legal counsel or other type of instruction with regard to traffic laws, judicial proceedings or official agency policy.
------------------------------------------------

"Ignorance on fire is hotter than knowledge on ice."

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04-15-2006, 11:03 AM
#15
RedRaider911
Forum Member
Location:Tejas
Posts:629
Quote Originally Posted by VA Dutch

Some quick searching turned up the web sites shown below. I neither condone nor oppose any view represented by any of them, but merely have listed them so that forum viewers can read the contents for themselves and develop their own opinions regarding this topic.

{How is that for a generic, politically correct disclaimer?}

http://www.freemason.org (Web Site for a California Lodge)

http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous.htm (Famous Freemasons)

http://www.freedomdomain.com/freemason.html (Read for Yourself!)

http://freemasonrywatch.org/ (Anti-Masonic Site)

http://skepdic.com/freemasons.html (Skeptic Website)

http://www.bilderberg.org/masons.htm (Another anti-masonic site)

ENJOY!!
As a mason myself, I find the anti-mason sites to be halarious. Most of the stuff on those sites are so far off base that it is amussing.

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04-15-2006, 12:01 PM
#16
SammyCal1
Forum Member
Join Date:Apr 2004
Location:Northern NJ
Posts:490

There is a Masonic Lodge right around the block from the police station. We never have a problem there other than the occasional parking problem when they have a big event.

They have absolutely no influence within the police department or the court and they never try to recruit us. Also, no person in the department is a member.

Sammy

If I could keep one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain. If I could ease one life the aching or cool one pain; or lift a fainting robin unto it's nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson
www.samanthafund.com

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04-15-2006, 01:37 PM
#17
Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296
Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider911

As a mason myself, I find the anti-mason sites to be halarious. Most of the stuff on those sites are so far off base that it is amussing.
This is a typical reaction from a Freemason when the "secrets" of the lodge are presented to him by the "profane". You get the same reaction when beginning to interview a Crip or a Blood. They just snicker at you until you show them some "knowledge" and then they start spewing all kinds of stuff to you

Masons are not allowed to recruit, but if you ask one of them a question about it, they will ask you to join. Have you ever seen one of those bumper stickers '2B1Ask1" ?

A friend of mine (actually a FORMERfriend because he turned out to be a real dirtball) was trying to get me to join a while back. I asked him what Masons did at the lodge. I asked him "Do you guys shoot pool? Play Cards? He said I would have to join to find out, so I little reseach (pre internet days). Then I went back to work and gave all my Mason buddies the handshake and a bunch of the secret words. I thought they would get mad at me, but they just snickered uncomfortably and said "where did you here that crazy stuff"?....Then they REALLY pressured me to join.

It is true that is an aging organization, I think the average age is about 68.

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04-15-2006, 01:56 PM
#18
VA Dutch
Former Deputy Sheriff
Join Date:Feb 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:1,782

Hogboy,

I have seen those "2B1ASK1" stickers on license plate frames, but never knew what they meant. I thought it was something about wanting to be a skier. Sheesh! I learn something new every day, I guess.

My uncle also told me that the masonic organizations never "recruit" and don't plan to do so anytime soon.......although they are supposed to create an environment where aspiring members might happen to stumble into finding interest in it on their own. Maybe that is why they run the risk of dying out as their members pass on. Perhaps being a mason is not as prestigious as it once was. Not to besmirch the fine men who may be members of a particular lodge, but today we live in a different time.

Anyway, just be the best person you can be - regardless of any fraternal affiliation. I was a fraternity brother in college and I did learn a lot of things from it - although it really doesn't mean diddly squat once you are out in the "real world" and chugging along. Perhaps networking and 'referrals' are a big part of it. I know masons do tend to "look out for each other," and most will freely admit it; but they're no different from any other 'club' in that regard.

Hey, I remember some kids were in Demolay (sp?) when I was in high school. A few tried to get me to join, but they wanted me to pay money to sign up before they'd tell me what it was all about. Sorry, but no dice on that one. Mabye Demolay was a younger offshoot of adult freemasons. I don't know.

The comments above reflect my personal opinion as a private citizen, ordinary motorist and all-around good guy.

The aforementioned advice should not be construed to represent any type of professional opinion, legal counsel or other type of instruction with regard to traffic laws, judicial proceedings or official agency policy.
------------------------------------------------

"Ignorance on fire is hotter than knowledge on ice."

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04-15-2006, 02:02 PM
#19
Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296
Quote Originally Posted by VA Dutch

Hogboy,

I have seen those "2B1ASK1" stickers on license plate frames, but never knew what they meant. I thought it was something about wanting to be a skier. Sheesh! I learn something new every day, I guess.

My uncle also told me that the masonic organizations never "recruit" and don't plan to do so anytime soon.......although they are supposed to create an environment where aspiring members might happen to stumble into finding interest in it on their own. Maybe that is why they run the risk of dying out as their members pass on. Perhaps being a mason is not as prestigious as it once was. Not to besmirch the fine men who may be members of a particular lodge, but today we live in a different time.

Anyway, just be the best person you can be - regardless of any fraternal affiliation. I was a fraternity brother in college and I did learn a lot of things from it - although it really doesn't mean diddly squat once you are out in the "real world" and chugging along. Perhaps networking and 'referrals' are a big part of it. I know masons do tend to "look out for each other," and most will freely admit it; but they're no different from any other 'club' in that regard.

Hey, I remember some kids were in Demolay (sp?) when I was in high school. A few tried to get me to join, but they wanted me to pay money to sign up before they'd tell me what it was all about. Sorry, but no dice on that one. Mabye Demolay was a younger offshoot of adult freemasons. I don't know.
Yes, Demolay is a club for baby Masons and the Order of the Eastern Star is for the wives.

On a side note, the "Prince Hall" Lodges are for Blacks because the "AF&AM" (white) lodges are segregated. MLK, Jesse Jackson, Medggar Evers, etc are/were all "Prince Hall" Masons, yet they never complain about the segregation there. I have been told by members of the White Lodge that they do not consider the Black Masons to be authentic. That is wrong

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04-15-2006, 02:25 PM
#20
VA Dutch
Former Deputy Sheriff Join Date:Feb 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:1,782

Hogboy, they are no longer 'segregated' by their charters or bylaws - at least according to my uncle. It used to be that way at one time, and the black masons did form their own lodges - many of which remain today. However, they are now integrated in many places. My uncle said that there are black men in his lodge (Ohio) and even some guys who are Jewish. While freemasons are predominately Christian, they only require a belief in a higher power/supreme being. I've never heard of a Jewish masonic-type outfit, aside from B'nai B'rith.

Maybe it is just a matter of black men being more comfortable among their own, I don't know. You'd have to ask one to be sure. Maybe it is kind of like going to church. We have overcome segregation in schools, universities, government and the workplace.....yet Sunday morning still finds people voluntarily segregating themselves.

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04-15-2006, 02:31 PM
#21
Hogboy
Join Date:Oct 2005
Location:Virginia
Posts:296

Quote Originally Posted by VA Dutch

Hogboy, they are no longer 'segregated' by their charters or bylaws - at least according to my uncle. It used to be that way at one time, and the black masons did form their own lodges - many of which remain today. However, they are now integrated in many places. My uncle said that there are black men in his lodge (Ohio) and even some guys who are Jewish. While freemasons are predominately Christian, they only require a belief in a higher power/supreme being. I've never heard of a Jewish masonic-type outfit, aside from B'nai B'rith.

Maybe it is just a matter of black men being more comfortable among their own, I don't know. You'd have to ask one to be sure. Maybe it is kind of like going to church. We have overcome segregation in schools, universities, government and the workplace.....yet Sunday morning still finds people voluntarily segregating themselves.
Last I heard (about 15 years ago) there was only one AF&AM (white) lodge that was integrated and that was in Mass. I guess the other lodges are starting to catch up.

Their twisted thinking in the segregation matter was that candidates for admission must be "free born". Well, I guess that would qualify every black man born in this country since 1865, but only very recently did the lodges see it that way

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04-15-2006, 03:39 PM
#22
SlowDownThere
Cherub of Justice
Join Date:Sep 2005
Location:New York State
Posts:4,141

Quote Originally Posted by mainedawg

Elks and Masons in my part of the country.
It's Elvis impersonators around here. You can just never tell what there are up to.

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04-15-2006, 06:31 PM #23
RedRaider911
Forum Member
Join Date:Sep 2005
Location:Tejas
Posts:629
Quote Originally Posted by Hogboy

Yes, Demolay is a club for baby Masons and the Order of the Eastern Star is for the wives.

On a side note, the "Prince Hall" Lodges are for Blacks because the "AF&AM" (white) lodges are segregated. MLK, Jesse Jackson, Medggar Evers, etc are/were all "Prince Hall" Masons, yet they never complain about the segregation there. I have been told by members of the White Lodge that they do not consider the Black Masons to be authentic. That is wrong
I agree that it is wrong. It is something that most of the younger members are trying to get changed, but in an organization as old as this change comes very slow. It makes me very sad to see that many older members still defend this practice. While not codified it is an understood practice in many lodges. As I said, many of the younger members are trying to get higher positions in the organization to bring change about.

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04-15-2006, 06:36 PM
#24
Hogswine
Join Date:Mar 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:287
Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider911

I agree that it is wrong. It is something that most of the younger members are trying to get changed, but in an organization as old as this change comes very slow. It makes me very sad to see that many older members still defend this practice. While not codified it is an understood practice in many lodges. As I said, many of the younger members are trying to get higher positions in the organization to bring change about.
I agree, and the younger members cannot be held accountable for the killings of JFK and MLK because many of them were not even born when that plot was hatched

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04-15-2006, 11:44 PM
#25
Hogswine
Join Date:Mar 2006
Location:Virginia
Posts:287

How offended would you Hiram Abiffs be if I shouted out the secret/sacred Masonic words and described the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress?


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